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ennon on McCartney in first broadcast of famous Wenner tapes

BBC Radio 4 is to give the first UK broadcast of excerpts from the 1970 interview which John Lennon himself referred to as "definitive". The interview, with Rolling Stone founder and editor Jan Wenner, took place shortly after the Beatles split. In it, Lennon accuses former band-member Paul McCartney of being "form and no substance" and claims their song-writing relationship was over as early as 1962, after which "we did our best work apart". The interview, to be broadcast on Radio 4 on Saturday 3 December at 7.00pm in the Archive Hour, is taken from tapes of Wenner's extensive interrogation of Lennon.

It documents the Beatles' career and split with painstaking emotion, and at times excruciating detail, and serves as a major and controversial point of exorcism for Lennon. It was the last interview he ever gave with such candour. In it, he speaks bitterly of his strained relationship with McCartney: "One of the main reasons the Beatles ended is because... I pretty damn well know, we got fed up with being sidemen for Paul."

More information about BBC Radio's Lennon coverage is available at http://bbc.co.uk/lennon

Do your guitar chops ever get in the way of your songwriting? You know, your gut says you should do something dumb but evocative, and your guitar ego is telling you, “No, you need to blaze here”?
Anderson: Well, I don’t play guitar as fast as Yngwie Malmsteen, but I have enough chops to do whatever I want, one way or another. This comes back to limitations creating a style. For example, I once saw a songwriter struggling to play quarter notes on the guitar, but she wrote a beautiful song around how “off” those quarter notes were. That was an eye opener. Technique can get in the way, but the whole trip is clearing your mind and renewing your inspiration.

How would you describe your relationship to the guitar?
Anderson: I think the guitar is the best instrument ever. It’s very expressive, and it got me right away. My dad bought me my first guitar and amp when I was eight—a Kent. It was cheap, but I’ll never forget that experience of playing—of hitting an open G, and going, “Wow!” I’ve gone through so many head spaces with the guitar: virtuouso things, punk-rock things, and getting stoned and playing things. I don’t think about it that much anymore. I just play guitar.
Ray: I was not a guy who ever sat around learning other guy’s solos. My approach is pretty visceral. It was more about touch and choices. I’d absorb their tone and style. It’s taste. It’s more about asking myself, “What would Keith Richards do? What would Jeff Beck do?” I didn’t want to sound like anybody else. I wasn’t completing with anybody else. I would say my style is about personality, humor, and deliberate choices of notes. It’s about tone, taste, and restraint.

You didn’t go the loop route to construct the rhythm tracks for your solo album, did you?
Anderson: I’m not into machines. I like the sound coming into a room and being picked up by a microphone. I like the sound of fingers on strings. The thing I’ve always liked about bands is that there’s a team aspect. Contrary to popular belief, you can’t do it in an ego state. Good music can only be played when there’s respect for each other’s performance. You can’t do it in an ego vacuum. I’m all about real musicians playing instruments.

Is there anything else you’d like to discuss?
Anderson: I just love playing music, man. I love playing with Paul. Playing gigs with him is like nothing else—it’s such a buzz. And I like playing gigs with my band, making records, writing songs, producing, and playing on other people’s records. I’m so thankful to be playing music for a living. You can only control stuff so much. We all have aspirations and goals, but, at some point, you have to let life take you where it wants to.
Ray: Just that I made a decision to hold the release of my record until after Paul’s tour, because it’s important for me to honor Paul and to give him 150 percent right now. I didn’t want to be distracted, and be thinking about me and my record while I’m here to play with Paul. Because, quite simply, if it wasn’t for Paul, I wouldn’t have my record. He was the inspiration for it, and he was the reason I was able to do it.

Outtakes from the interviews with Paul McCartney’s guitarists Rusty Anderson and Brian Ray.
So, what’s Paul really like?
Ray: Paul is exactly how we’d all hope Paul is. He’s such a blast at rehearsals. If things get too serious, you know he’s going to look for an opportunity to break us up.

Did working with Paul influence your songwriting for your solo album Undressing Underwater [Surfdog]?
Anderson: Subconsciously, being “legend adjacent” probably informed my writing. But I was on my path a long time ago—although the Beatles were the reason I started playing music when I was five years old. My older sister was into them, and I just immediately latched onto them. They were the original influence. It’s an interesting full-circle thing, and playing with Paul now is really a trip. It’s funny how things happen.

There’s a lot of history in that guy...
Anderson: The funny thing is that I don’t think Paul always remembers which parts he played. The thing I’ve realized more than anything, after talking to Paul so much, is that the Beatles were always under deadlines trying to get stuff done. They were moving at the speed of light. Everyone else can try to pull apart the meaning of things—and what gear they used and who played what and whatever—but they were just trying to meet deadlines. They were trying to get songs done.
Ray: You have to remember that the Beatles did a record every six months. Paul told us they’d get a call from George Martin, who would say, “Okay boys, we’re going into the studio on the 27th, so you’ve got a week off from touring to write the record. See you there!” And Paul and John would go, “Yippee, a week off!” Yeah—to write the record! So they’d meet at one of their homes, and they would write in a very disciplined manner every day. And every day they’d write a song. What’s even more fascinating is that Paul said they never wrote down or recorded any of the songs they wrote. They’d just come back the next day and remember everything. They figured if the song was any good they’d remember every aspect of it.

Did Paul ever relate his Beatles songwriting techniques to you?
Ray: I asked Paul if he wrote to a title, or a little melody, or a riff or something, and he said, “No. It was always lyrics, music, melody, and guitars all at once.” I think that’s another reason why those Beatles songs stick—because they’re songs. They’re not licks or a contrived chorus. They were just songs coming out of their guts and hearts in their entirety. Paul said that in the more than 300 songs he and John wrote, he could only remember one time where they got stuck, and that was when they were writing “Drive My Car.” They thought the title wasn’t working, but they liked the song. So they took a break, had some tea, and changed it. I won’t tell you the lyric they tossed, because that’s Paul’s right to do that. I don’t want to be the guy who tells everybody what “Drive My Car” was originally written as. And, you know, even with the rewrite they still finished the song at the end of the day!

So how do you approach songwriting?
Anderson: This was my first record, so I’ve had whatever songs I’ve written in different time periods to draw from. Some have gone through a metamorphosis, and some, like “Sentimental Chaos” were finished just before the mastering. I sort of got into a vibe where I’d just write lyrics—sort of a Bernie Taupin approach where it’s more about the words. I wasn’t thinking about the songs so much. I mean, when you’re writing lyrics, you have to think about meter and all that kind of stuff, but I wasn’t necessarily thinking about the music. Having said that, for “Coming Out of the Earth” the chorus music and lyric were written simultaneously. I’ve written a number of ways. I’ve let the lyric dictate the music, or sometimes I have all these cassettes with musical ideas—“Oh, this is a cool idea. I really want to make this into something.”—and then I’ll go get some lyrics, and see how the lyrics and music work together. You know, I haven’t yet found anything better than cassettes for recording and storing song ideas. I’ve recorded on MiniDiscs and Palm Pilots, and I don’t even know where those songs are right now. They’re all lost. Cassettes are a pain in the ass, but that’s what I end up using.

Brian, how did you approach the writing for your solo album, Mondo Magneto [Whooray]?
Ray: I started writing the songs with a Les Paul Jr. or a Les Paul in my living room—usually at night, writing alone with a little Vox Pathfinder amp to get a distorted sound at a low level, an old cassette recorder, and a pad of paper. I wanted to be able to perform the song top to bottom, but with a cool rock sound. So I knew I wanted that simple guitar part to live on its own, and that was the beginning of the sound. Then, I’d write a part for a second guitar part, because I saw this album as a “two-guitar band.” You just shape it and layer it as you go along, but it all starts with lead vocal, lyric, melody, and main guitar. I can usually see all of the parts of a song as I’m writing, and every part is like an actor in a play. If those actors aren’t helping the story, then they shouldn’t be there. I always leave room for surprises, though.
Lyrically, there must be some weight. The lyrics must draw you in, and have some meaning. Then again, I’ve always been a sucker for a good pop song, so I try meld modern songwriting, lyrics that matter, and more modern melodic and harmonic content, but informed by classic rock elements. A lot of the time, I hear the record in my head as I’m finishing a song. Going into the studio and getting the record done is really just chipping away at the granite to reveal the image that’s been waiting in the granite. To a great degree, I know what the song will sound like before I walk into the studio.

Exclusive Interview Outtakes from Paul McCartney and his Crew!
By Michael Molenda | November 2005

We couldn’t fit everything Paul and his gang said in the November 2005 issue of Guitar Player, so we selected some of the best bits and uploaded them here. To see the complete interviews, please go to your local newsstand and pick up the November issue. You can’t miss it. There’s a Beatle on the cover. But hurry—this issue goes off sale on December 13. — Michael Molenda



Outtakes from the interview with Paul McCartney.
It must have been a bit daunting for your tour guitarists Rusty Anderson and Brian Ray when they auditioned for you. What do you look for in a collaborator?
McCartney: Just someone I admire, really. I had worked with Rusty in the studio before, on the Driving Rain record, and he seemed to be able to turn his hand to pretty much anything. And such hands! The guy has got big hands, so he sort of dwarfs anything he does, and he’s such a great player. I just ask him if he can do something, and he finds a way to play it. Nothing defeats him. He’s a really fine player—he plays in tune, he does all the right things, and he gets a great sound. He’s also a great spirit to have in the band—all the guys are, which I think is very important. They’re all great players, but they’re great people, as well, so we get on as a group.

The guitar sounds on Chaos and Creation in the Backyard [Capitol] are pretty raw and organic.
McCartney: Yeah, well, I always work like that. And Nigel [Godrich, album producer] works that way, as well.

How was the creative relationship between you and Nigel?
McCartney: I brought in the songs, and I would make some suggestions about how things should sound. But he said to me when we first met—and it’s one of the things I liked about Nigel—“Look, one thing about me is I know what I like and I know what I don’t like.” And it was like, okay. It’s like having a band member who is going to say that he hates something. At least you know that the other person thinks you should try something else!

Is it weird interpreting your old Beatles songs with a new band for a contemporary live audience?
McCartney: We, we do get to be the first band ever to do some of those songs live with the real vocalist! But, no, I really like reinterpreting the Beatles—and so does the band. There’s some license to switch things around, but we stay faithful to the signature things. You don’t want to reinterpret too much. My view is that if I go to a concert, and I hear, say, the Rolling Stones do “(I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction,” I want it to sound like the record. I don’t want to suddenly hear a trumpet doing the fuzz guitar opening. So that’s what we do. We do what we think is the best thing for the audience. This means doing the songs pretty faithfully. But it also means we can put a slightly edgier vibe on things just because it’s live. It’s really nice revisiting some of the Beatles songs that I’ve never done live. We have a lot of fun playing together.

As you played many of the parts on the new album yourself, did you start the recording process with a click track or a drum machine?
McCartney: Sometimes, sure, but if I feel like I’ve got a good enough tempo on the piano part or something, I’ll just lay it down straight. Often I’ll think, “Look, there are a few breaks here, and I’m bound to slow down.” But if it feels best to have a little “breathing” to the tempo, I won’t mind. On some of the more complicated songs—like the piano part of “Promise To You Girl”—I definitely used a click track. But I don’t use anything too complicated. It might just be a hi-hat so I know where I am.

So you would lay down an instrument first, and then play the drums?
McCartney: Yeah. It might be like piano, guitar, bass, drums—that kind of order. But I varied every time, really. It came down to whatever we fancied.


Outtakes from the interview with Paul McCartney’s personal assistant and tech John Hammel.
Does Paul have a particular preference for strings?
Hammel: On acoustic guitar he uses medium-lights, with a .054 bottom E. On his electrics, it’s a .042 on the bottom E, and a .009 on the top.

John, do you have any observations about the making of the record that you’d like to share with our readers?
Hammel: I actually filmed a lot of the process, so it was nice to watch the way Paul and Nigel built the album up—the way they chatted about it and worked it out. If they didn’t like something, they’d change it. There was really a lot of concentration on getting it to sound the way they wanted. It was amazing what they did. It was totally organic—the most organic thing Paul has done for years. Paul would rewrite the songs on the spot, if necessary.

Did they work regular hours?
Hammel: We’re a bit more civilized these days. We’d work from noon until 6 pm or 7 pm. They used both Pro Tools and tape. Pro Tools was used more for light editing and doing comps on things. The tracks were laid to tape first though. I hope the tape companies wake up. There aren’t many people making 2-inch tape anymore. Abbey Road used to be a great studio, and now they’ve revamped it with very high-tech stuff and you can’t even find any screens these days. If, say, you wanted to make a drum booth, you couldn’t do that these days. It’s bullshit, absolute rubbish. They’ve gone too far the other way. I really believe that some of this going forward is actually going backward. One step forward, two steps back. Not on everything, but on a lot of things. It takes so much longer now that it’s all done by computer.

It’s amazing that although he could get his hands on any piece of gear in the world, he went to these instruments he has had forever.
Hammel: But they’re the real things! When you get into a groove with a guitar, it knows you and you know it. It’s like a car. You get to know every noise associated with it. I’ve handled Paul’s guitars for 30 years now, so I know these instruments, too. He has definitely tried other things, but these guitars make the sounds that 50,000 people can recognize and love with just one hit.

John Lennon’s Unheard Music

The existence of a treasure trove of unreleased material written by ex-Beatle John Lennon and Bruce Bierman, a covert friend and collaborator during the 1970’s, has been disclosed, a certain boon to Lennon fans around the world. Never publicized, Lennon befriended Bierman during 1972 when he was a member of the “David Peel and The Lower East Band, ” a music group which Lennon and wife Yoko Ono produced, releasing an offbeat album under the Apple Records label. By mutual consent, the friendship was kept private. Bierman enjoyed a comradeship which involved “hanging out, showing John around New York City, playing and writing songs together – just having fun.” He continued, “I was sort of John’s protégé… he loved that my interest was in learning from him, and not the typical thing… to be seen with him… he despised that, ” Bierman said.

The two wrote several tunes reminiscent of early Lennon solo years and some that sound as if they could have been recorded as Beatle’s songs, but never were. Anytime Bierman had shared his relationship with Lennon, dating back to his high school senior year, college years and after, he experienced ridicule and disbelief. He decided to remain silent and enjoy the moment, however long it would last. And, it would last only until his friend was brutally murdered outside his residence in New York City on December 8, 1980… twenty-five years ago.

Before then, the friendship became difficult when Bierman moved to Northern California in 1976 to work as a stage sound engineer for the likes of the founders of The Jefferson Airplane – a band called Hot Tuna; The Grateful Dead and its members; and other San Francisco Bay Area based bands. However, Bierman met with Lennon in New York during frequent visits, or spoke on the phone. “There’s so much to tell, but the music we shared speaks more than I could possibly say, ” said Bierman. Depending on interest, he plans to eventually release and perform some of the songs he and Lennon penned together. He said, “If people are curious to hear what I did with John, I’ll certainly find a way to share that.” Bierman has learned first-hand knowledge from Lennon, his craft of songwriting, musicianship and recording.

The website with Bierman’s untold story, background information and song samples is located at www.newlennon.com. “I am happy to have finally found the courage to tell my story and share what I did with John, and I am very pleased with the encouragement and kind words I have received. I was in a very difficult position all these years. I just hope everyone will understand my sincerity and my respect for my friend and his family.”

Previously appearing in an isolated 1991 Billboard Magazine article, where Bierman shared recordings and photos with the reporter, he subsequently decided to hold off pursuing his story until being certain not to infringe on anyone’s rights. Documentation of these events also appeared in two Beatles books, "The Beatles: The Ultimate Recording Guide" and "The Beatles Diary: Volume 2:

After The Breakup 1970-2000, " released in 1992 and 1999, respectively. In 2001, he informed Yoko Ono of what occurred between him and Lennon, and visited with her attorney in New York at her request. Ono subsequently decided not to pursue the matter further. Four years later, Bierman ultimately decided to step forward and tell his story. “I am not exploiting anything, nor am I attempting to profit at John’s or anyone else’s expense. I think it is appropriate to tell his fans our story and share the music we did together.”

Bierman, also known as Jon Brulen, resides in Los Angeles, and is exploring options on how to share the music and experiences he had with John Lennon. Concurrently, he has also launched a petition to get John Lennon on a U.S. postage stamp at www.johnlennonstamp.org.

Metheny & The John Lennon Educational Tour Bus

The John Lennon Educational Tour Bus, the unique non-profit mobile recording and multimedia studio, will host public tours and demonstrations at Music Player Live (MPL). The Lennon Bus will have highly respected musician Pat Metheny on-board working with students from area schools to write and record an original composition on October 22.

Participants in the Bus workshops, which are conducted free of charge at schools across the country, write an original song, perform and record it, videotape it, and go home with a completed music video on a Maxell DVD.

The tours that the public attending the expo will experience are conducted by the on-board engineers who introduce the two studio environments, explaining and demonstrating record and video production, and introducing an array of opportunities within the music and multimedia industries. Each visitor will also receive “goody bags” courtesy of Maxell Corporation, Disc Makers, themusicedge.com, Digidesign, and Guitar Player Magazine. Demonstrations of Brian Moore Guitars’ innovative iGuitar and of GarageBand software are another feature of the Bus’ visit.

The John Lennon Educational Tour Bus is a non-profit state-of-the-art mobile recording and multimedia studio that provides music and video education programs for young people. In its eighth year, the endeavor is an offshoot of the 9 year old John Lennon Songwriting Contest, dedicated to providing opportunities for both professional and amateur songwriters around the world. The Bus travels across America year-round, providing visitors with free, hands-on experiences using the latest audio and video technology, gear and products. The John Lennon Songwriting Contest and Educational Tour Bus are made possible by an agreement with Yoko Ono Lennon.

Track Listing: I Feel Fine; Paperback Writer; Rain; Michelle; Yes It Is; Please Please Me; Things We Said Today; From Me To You; A Hard day's Night; Ticket To Ride; Yellow Submarine.

Personnel: Len Clarke: drums; Ron Forbes: vibraphone; Mike McNaught: piano; Brian Moore: bass.

Take a New Look at the Beatles
London Jazz Four | Harkit Records

This Brit quartet made the songs of the Fab Four their own, taking a lot of risk in reinterpreting many timeless classics but also approaching lesser-known Lennon-McCartney tunes (sadly, there are no Harrison compositions on the album). The result is a collection of songs on this disc (originally released in 1967) that sound almost if they were completely new. For instance, “I Feel Fine” receives a Bach-like harpsichord riff that repeats itself throughout the track, the rest of the instruments basically improvising around the song’s original melody.


John Lennon’s Dylan-esque “Rain” gives a lot of space for vibes player Ron Forbes and pianist Mike McNaught alternately to showcase their visions on each song. Gone is the song’s original dark feel, which is replaced by a slow, peaceful one. The early tune “Yes It Is” is barely recognizable, featuring percussion, finger cymbals, and a triangle as backdrop for the piano, which sounds as if McNaught’s fingers had a hard time moving over the keys, giving an otherwise simple song an eerie, almost ghostly feel.


The quartet swings through “Please Please Me” and “Things We Said Today,” but the latter has more of a Latin jazz sound with some Afro undertones. “A Hard Day’s Night” turns out to be one of the best tracks on the CD. The song morphs into a jazz waltz, which is an interesting development. Also pay close attention to the playfulness and simplicity of the musicians’ take on “Yellow Submarine.”