Есть повод почистить Ордена!

Сегодня утром Радио России напомнило о 40-летии с того дня, как Битлз были удостоены орденов Британской Империи.
Интересно, Пол и Ринго об этом вспомнили?
И кто-нибудь занет, где сейчас находится возвращенный орден Джона?

Все-таки "удостоены" они были пораньше, а вот сами награды вручили им уже 26.10.65.


Jun 12 -- A spokesman of the British government announces the Beatles have been named to the MBE. `Daily Mirror' headline: `Beatles, MBE!'. Morning: Beatles parents receive flowers sent by Brian. Morning: Brian is interviewed on BBC's Light Programme `Late Night Extra' by telephone from his Blackpool hotel room. Later, Brian flies from Blackpool to London and then drives to Weybridge to collect John, who is very late for the press conference. Lunchtime: press conference at Twickenham Film Studios. Brian attends. Paul affirms that MBE must stand for `Mister Brian Epstein'.

Кстати, кто-нибудь разбирается в иерархии членов МВЕ согласно степеням ордена?

2Expert:

>Все-таки "удостоены" они были пораньше, а вот сами награды вручили им уже 26.10.65.

Видимо, так и есть, речь в той радиопрограмме шла о фактическом вручении наград в Бугенгемском дворце.
Причем было подчеркнуто, что Битлз получили не за музыкальные достижения, а за вклад в экономику страны и как за наиболее доходную статью британского экспорта
(слюшай, обыдно, да!)

И совсем добили тем, что после них такие награды получили многие звезды английского рока, хотя я смогу припомнить не больше десятка...

2Leobax
>>>слюшай, обыдно, да!

Вообще шаг "нетипичный" для того времени. Такой формулировкой они хотели обезопасить себя от всяких "старослужащих", бросившихся возвращать награды. Типа "объективный критерий". По поводу музыки Уилсон выскажется попозже

Former British Prime Minister Harold Wilson (Member of Parliament for Liverpool), in 1982 interview with author Ray Coleman, had this to say: "I saw the Beatles, as having a transforming effect on the minds of youth, mostly for the good. It kept a lot of kids off the streets. They introduced many many young people to music, which in itself was a good thing. A lot of old stagers might have regarded it as idiosyncratic music, but the Mersey sound was a new important thing. That's why they deserved such recognition."

А то, что дали всем остальным... Битлз как обычно заложили традицию. Да и все остальные видимо тоже вносили вклад в экономику :))) И к чему разговор - оказывается это 120 награда из 126 всего.

The MBEs were actually awarded for 'services to their country', and ranked a lowly 120th on the list of 126 titles that it was possible for the Queen to bestow.


Уточню дату

Jun 11 -- The Beatles are named to the Order of the British Empire on the Queen Elizabeth II's birthday honours list published this day. Night: Brian flies to Blackpool to see Billy J. Kramer with the Dakotas play at the North Pier Theatre. Before leaving, he orders flowers for the parents of each Beatle, to coincide with the lifting of the news embargo that the Beatles have been awarded the MBE. Paul returns from holiday in Portugal, at Brian's request, to attend the next day's press conference.

И еще факт - "По поводу участия Битлз в холодной войне".

In the summer of 1965, upon returning to Britain after performing to 56,000 fans in New York’s Shea Stadium, the Queen named them Members of the Order of the British Empire(MBE), and asked that they pledge their cooperation with the U.S. government in defeating the Russians. They agreed.

Короче, по своей ценности данные награды лишь немного превышают ценность значков, например, отечественного производства и должны быть приравнены к статусу "Ударник капиталистического труда".

Если это так, то Леннона в 1969 году очень даже и можно было понять. Может он надеялся таким образом возвратить свой вклад в британскую экономику. "Я вам орден, а вы мне - выплаченные налоги".

2Sitaradio:

>Кстати, кто-нибудь разбирается в иерархии членов
>МВЕ согласно степеням ордена?

Всего степеней пять:

·Knight or Dame Grand Cross (GBE)
·Knight or Dame Commander (KBE or DBE)
·Commander (CBE)
·Officer (OBE)
·Member (MBE)

Право на рыцарский титул дают две первые степени - рыцарь или кавалерственная дама Большого рыцарского или дамского Креста, рыцарь-командор и дама-командор. Командоры, офицеры и просто-напросто члены ордена такого права не имеют.

Я слушал кстати, что MBE формально вернуть невозможно. Кто знает, где сейчас находится орден Джона? Вчера перерыл весь интернет, ничего не нашел...

2Jude V:
>Всего степеней пять:
>·Knight or Dame Grand Cross (GBE)
>·Knight or Dame Commander (KBE or DBE)
>·Commander (CBE)
>·Officer (OBE)
>·Member (MBE)
>Право на рыцарский титул дают две первые степени
>- рыцарь или кавалерственная дама Большого рыцарского
>или дамского Креста, рыцарь-командор и дама-командор.
>Командоры, офицеры и просто-напросто члены ордена
>такого права не имеют.

А Маккартни "перешагнул" через командора и офицера, когда недавно стал рыцарем? Или я что-то путаю?

Corvin
>>>Кто знает, где сейчас находится орден Джона?

Служащие Дворца Ее Величества вряд ли сколько-нибудь будут заинтересованы в афишировании этой информации. Речь идет об "ошибке" и собственно о неком "позоре", когда возвращают награды. Куда делись ордена ветеранов Вьетнамской войны, выброшенные ими на ступени, кажется, Конгресса США. Орден Джона возможно обрел нового хозяина. Тем более, если там драг.металлы. Маловероятно, что кто-то взял его в "личную коллекцию" в качестве сувенира. Еще маловероятней то, что его выставят в музее Королевы в экспозиции "Ордена, которые мне вернули".

2Expert:

>Орден Джона возможно обрел
>нового хозяина. Тем более, если там драг.металлы.
>Маловероятно, что кто-то взял его в "личную коллекцию"
>в качестве сувенира. Еще маловероятней то, что
>его выставят в музее Королевы в экспозиции "Ордена,
>которые мне вернули".

а на Сотбис или еще где он не всплывал раньше.
все ж таки лакомый кусок (у него же и номер, поди, имеется)

2Leobax

Ну как же "Сотбис". Кто-то может кроме Королевы владеть этим орденом? А уж ей-то из Букингемского дворца есть что вынести на аукционы кроме возвращенных наград :)))) Сколько там тех лакомых кусков. :))

2Expert:

>2Leobax
> Кто-то может кроме Королевы
> владеть этим орденом? :))

А официально известно ,что возвращенный Джоном Орден МБЕ вернулся в Букингем?
Может, они с Йокой виртуально послал его туда или зарыли вместе с желудями? :-)

3-й от конца абзац...

-----------------------------------

There was a formal announcement on 11 June 1965 that the Beatles would each be made an MBE. The initials stand for Member (of the Order of the) British Empire.

However, John, who in some ways was antiestablishment, made it known that he was not entirely happy with receiving the award. When he'd originally seen the brown envelope with 'On Her Majesty's Service' written on it, he said he thought he was being called up.

When he discovered what it was he recalled that his first instinct was to turn it down. When Brian Epstein phoned him to discuss it and he told him his feelings, Brian said that he had to accept the honour. John knew that, if he spurned it, it would do incalculable damage to the group. Later, he was to comment, 'Taking the MBE was a sell-out for me.'

Once he'd decided to comply with his manager's request, John began giving out his quotes to the press: 'I thought people got these things for driving tanks, winning wars.' But when some protesters began sending their medals back to the Palace, John became annoyed and said that, while army officers got their awards for killing people, 'We got ours for entertaining. On balance, I'd say we deserve ours more.'

The day the Beatles were to be presented with their MBEs, newspapers ran headlines proclaiming 'beatlemania AT buck house' and when the group arrived in their black Rolls Royce, pandemonium raged outside, but perfect decorum reigned inside.

The groups for the investiture were then formed into the Orders of Knighthood, with the MBEs, the lowest, coming last. Other categories included CBEs and OBEs. There were eighty MBEs awarded that particular day and all participants were ushered into an anteroom for briefing.

Everyone in the room was obviously interested in the Beatles. Robert Dougall, a noted BBC broadcaster who was also to be presented, described them as 'four slim young men in dark lounge suits and dark ties. Nothing flamboyant about their dress, although Ringo Starr's suit had eight buttons down the front and George Harrison's tailor had given him epaulettes and buttoned pockets. There they stood, all very well behaved, with their longish hair and pale green faces.'

Dougall joined the queue of fellow MBEs asking for auto­graphs: 'They signed away as nice as pie.' Paul McCartney declared the Palace to be a 'keen pad' and John Lennon said Re liked the carpets and especially the staff. He had expected them to be dukes and things but, 'They are all just fellers.'

They were all briefed by Lt Col. Eric Penn, Comptroller from the Lord Chamberlain's office.

At Christmas he took his MBE medal down to his Aunt Mimi's bungalow in Poole, Dorset, and told her she could keep it. She placed it on her sideboard beneath a picture of John taken by Astrid Kirchherr, but later placed it on top of her television set.

One day he sent his chauffeur, Les Anthony, to collect it from her. Anthony told Mimi, 'Mr Lennon said would you lend him the MBE medal for a while.' Mimi told him, 'Yes, but tell him, don't forget it's mine and I want it back.' John had it wrapped up in brown paper and sent to the Queen at Buckingham Palace with the message, 'I am returning this MBE in protest against Britain's involvement in the Nigeria-Biafra thing, against our support of America in Vietnam and against 'Cold Turkey' slipping down the chart. With love, John Lennon. Bag Productions, 3 Savile Row, London Wl.' He also sent similar letters to the Prime Minister and to the secretary of the Central Chancery.

His Aunt Mimi was furious at the deception and told John so in no uncertain terms, accusing him of insulting the Queen. 'He broke my heart over that,' she said. 'And also, he didn't tell me first why that medal was being taken away.'

John was later to regret that he'd added the facetious remark about 'Cold Turkey' in the letter, and despite the fact that he'd returned the medal he retained the honour because it could not be renounced once it had been accepted. Paul, George and Ringo, on the other hand, had no regrets in accepting their awards.


Bill Harry - The John Lennon Encyclopedia

Этот факт мы знаем, а вот куда шоферюга отвез орден на самом деле - у Билла Харри ничего не написано :-))
Ты же в курсе, что тогда же все щипали от Битловского пирога, кто сколько ухватит...

2Leobax:

>Этот факт мы знаем, а вот куда шоферюга отвез
>орден на самом деле - у Билла Харри ничего не
>написано :-))
>Ты же в курсе, что тогда же все щипали от Битловского
>пирога, кто сколько ухватит...

Нашел о нем только то вот что:

Les Anthony wrote an article in News of the World in 1972 about his experiences
as John's chauffeur from 1965 to 1971. He also helped John hurl a brick
through Paul's window.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.beatles/browse_thread/thread/c73612bdd0da7f4d/...

Еще:

John climbed over the fence and broke into Paul's house and destroyed a picture
he painted for Paul in front of Paul and Linda. Paul denies that John ever
climbed over his fence but some Apple scruffs have film footage of John
climbing over the fence. John also threw a brick through Paul's window in
1971. Les Anthony, John's chauffeur from 1964 to 1971, helped John throw the
bricks and has talked about this incident.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.beatles/browse_thread/thread/c7a3cbbc27cceb3b/...

P.S. Занятно!

P.P.S. Может в статейке в News of the World говорилось о судьбе ордена?

Anthony, Les

A former Welsh guardsman. John hired him as a chauffeur cum bodyguard in 1965 during his early days in Weybridge. When John moved into his new house, neither he nor his wife Cynthia could drive, so they had to have a car and chauffeur. Anthony worked for John for several years and observed his private life in its intimate details. He was with John when he met Yoko at the Indica Gallery and commented, 'Yoko took one look at John and attached herself to him like a limpet mine.' Apart from saying that Yoko clung to John until he fled, he added 'She came tripping after him into St James and begged to come along to the studio where we were going to record. A few days later she turned up at Abbey Road studio and was let in. John groaned about what a pest she was.'

Anthony revealed in the News of the World, 'One day Cynthia went up north. Yoko arrived at their home to talk to John about him sponsoring some art exhibition. It was supposed to be a business meeting. But she didn't go back until the morning and after that John couldn't leave her alone.' Anthony also claimed that John and Yoko made love in the back of the car within three weeks of their first meeting and not for the first time at Weybridge when they spent all night taping, as John and Yoko always maintained.

John sent Anthony to Poole to 'borrow' his MBE from Mimi Smith so that he could return it to Buckingham Palace on 25 November 1969. He also drove them in the white Rolls-Royce when John urged him to drive to Southampton and find a ship in which he and Yoko could get married. Anthony sold his story to the News of the World in May 1972.

Bill Harry - The John Lennon Encyclopedia

2Sitaradio:

>А Маккартни "перешагнул" через командора и офицера,
>когда недавно стал рыцарем? Или я что-то путаю?

Насколько я знаю, строгой последовательности здесь не выдерживается - насколько человек, по мнению Букингемского дворца, "наработал", такая степень и присваивается. Те же Клэптон, Джеггер и Дэвис даже MBE не получали, а вот вам пожалуйста - два Командора и рыцарь.

Севу Новгородцева тоже отметили: https://www.beatles.ru/postman/forum_messages.asp?msg_id=10201&cpage=2

Только какую из наград он получил, я так и не понял.