CNN LARRY KING LIVE -интервью с Полом 13 сентября 2003 года

Aired September 13, 2003 - 21:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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LARRY KING, HOST: Sir Paul McCartney back in the USSR for the first time. Tonight Sir Paul himself takes us inside his historic concert in Moscow's Red Square and his private meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

And then CNN's own Tucker Carlson, how he got the president to say the "F" word and other adventures behind the political scenes.

Plus, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., hammering the Bush administration on the environment. We'll ask him why.

And they're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

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KING: On Thursday night, September 18 on cable network A&E, there's going to be a special called "Paul McCartney in Red Square".

Joining us to discuss this by phone is Sir Paul McCartney himself, the music legend and prolific songwriter, comes to us from London. In Seattle is Richard Shenkman, the editor of George Mason University's History News Network. In Moscow is Artemy Troitsky, the activist in the Russian rock movement, first rock D.J. and journalist in Russia, currently a division head for Russian state television, author of several books, and our old friend in London, Sir David Frost, the acclaimed British journalist, television personality. He's the host and contributing editor of "Paul McCartney in Red Square".

We'll start first with Sir Paul on the phone from London. What took you so long to get to Moscow?

SIR PAUL MCCARTNEY, PERFORMED IN MOSCOW (via phone): Oh, a number of things. Hi Larry, by the way.

KING: Hi, hi.

MCCARTNEY: Hi. A lot of things really. I originally was going to finally get to Moscow just before 9/11 and I was at the time (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to go back to England to do the show when 9/11 happened. So, I changed my plans, did the concert for New York, and so at the end of that what became a tour, I finally got to Moscow. But, in the early days, there were just a million reasons why we couldn't go.

KING: What was it like?

MCCARTNEY: The concert was fantastic. We had the best time. I felt like I was returning home. You know, obviously, with a song like "Back in the USSR", I was keen to get there to play that song, see the reaction, and it was like someone had stuck an electric charge through the audience.

KING: What was it like just to be there? I mean what was your - even before the concert, what was it like to set foot in that country that we all hear so much about and never been to.

MCCARTNEY: Yes. Well, you know, as kids growing up and with the sort of Cold War and this whole idea that Russians were just these gray race of people, I was fascinated because knowing their history, knowing their culture or some of it, I was fascinated to go there and see it and it was really very special. We had a great time, went first of all to St. Petersburg because I originally had been asked to do like a master class there. So when the idea of playing in Moscow came up, I said look, let's go to St. Petersburg first and give a little back to the Russians, do a little bit work with their kids, and we opened a friend of mine's charity there.

Anthony Eno (ph) has a charity for orphan kids, so we helped with that. And we did a little bit of time with the Russians and getting the feel of the country, which is a very beautiful place. St. Petersburg is a very beautiful city. And then we sort of marched on Moscow and did the show in Red Square and it was sensational.

KING: And I understand you and the wife met with a previous guest on this program, President Putin. What was that like?

MCCARTNEY: We did. It was fantastic. We were invited to the Kremlin and we were sort of dropped off on our own and taken through these corridors, endless corridors. And we met with him and at first there was a bunch of press and photographs and cameras and things and then they eventually went, and it was just me, Heather, Vladimir Putin and his translator. And he eventually got rid of the translator, so it was just the three of us in the room. It was very nice. He seemed like a really great guy. I asked if he was going to the concert. He said he didn't think he was going to be able to get there, so there was a piano in the room, so I said well I'll tell you what, I'll give you a quick version of "Let It Be".

KING: You sang for him.

MCCARTNEY: Yes.

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MCCARTNEY: He did show up at the show later, but it was really nice. You know, it was a great feeling. It was a very interesting country to visit and under the circumstances, it was very exciting.

KING: We're looking forward to this special and I'll have you set up our guests and how they got involved, but did you have a problem with the police in Red Square? Were you bicycling or something?

MCCARTNEY: The morning after the concert I just sort of wanted to go back for a bit of after glow kind of thing. And Heather and I were just cycling around Red Square and of course we got stopped. And I said what's the problem, you know. And the guy said (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I just about understood -- he was speaking in Russian. He basically indicated that we weren't allowed to cycle around Red Square. So, I fell out with the cycling police.

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KING: Did you know during the years of the Beatles' popularity how popular you were in the Soviet Union?

MCCARTNEY: Well you know what was great was we used to hear rumors, people would come back and people knew from behind the Iron Curtain, as it was then called, that the Beatles were very popular. And people used to kind of smuggle their records in and you know, so we had an inkling that that was going on.

KING: All right. What - how did this special come about? Did you select Sir David Frost?

MCCARTNEY: Well David is an old friend of mine. I've known him (UNINTELLIGIBLE) since the '60's. You know we go back a long way, longer than we care to remember. But, yes, so I thought he would be the ideal person. You know he's - he has the sort of seriousness that the project needed, you know, and being an old friend, he seemed like the natural choice.

KING: And Mr. Troitsky is - I guess he's the number one mover of the Russian rock movement. Do you know him?

MCCARTNEY: Yes. I knew a little bit before - I had met him before we went to Russia. He wrote a book and that was where I first got this idea that we should do the program because you know he pointed out how significant this whole thing was and how significant the Beatles had been in bringing liberal thought and freedom to the kids in Russia, which in his view, had eventually kind of contributed quite heavily to the overthrow of communism.

KING: And do you know our historian, Mr. Shenkman?

MCCARTNEY: I don't actually. No, but I'm interested to hear what he has to say.

KING: Do you want to hang with us for a couple of minutes and listen?

MCCARTNEY: Yes. Sure.

KING: OK. Sir David, what did you make of this project? And Paul will remain with us on the phone -- David.

SIR DAVID FROST, WITH MCCARTNEY ON MOSCOW TRIP: Well as Paul was saying, it was a real experience to discover. I'd been to Russia before. Paul couldn't until this dramatic moment. But, to discover, you know, the Russian people and so on, and the impact that the Beatles had had. I mean, the amazing thing was that people actually tried to persuade us and tried to persuade Paul that the Beatles have had more impact than we thought they had. In fact, it was that way around and they were all passionate about this and as Paul was saying there about the liberal thought and freedom, and it's an intangible thing. Obviously it's not cruise missiles or whatever, Beatles music, but it does have a power.

And it obviously had a power, not the sole power obviously, in the end of communism out there. But it was thrilling - that scene in Red Square, Paul, I mean it was just incredible, wasn't it? I mean the reaction, as you said, to "Back In The USSR", but also to all of the other members and the other fascinating thing that they said was that it was vital for us. There were 7,000 people on the seats, 10 - 30,000 people standing, and no cover at all, I mean totally open to the air. So, the concert would have been rather spoiled and certainly the show would have been rather spoiled as well, if it had been raining hard throughout the concert. And one...

FROST: ... and one of the officials there just said oh, don't worry. We'll just do what we usually do. We'll just inject the clouds and that'll be all right. So they injected the clouds or whatever...

KING: And it worked.

FROST: ... and everything was fine and it was a lovely evening, you know, amazing.

KING: Artemy, as the Russian expert here in the rock movement, how do you explain since we would assume that the people didn't speak the language, how did they know what they were listening to?

ARTEMY TROITSKY, DIVISION HEAD RUSSIAN STATE TV: Well I think that the music spoke for itself. The Beatles, they did music that was so tremendously vibrant and funny and energetic and it was absolutely unlike, you know the official Soviet folk music that we didn't need to know the lyrics to understand the message of his music.KING: And Mr. Shenkman, as editor of George Mason University's History News Network, what to you was the significance of this?

RICHARD SHENKMAN, EDITOR, GEORGE MASON UNIV. HISTORY NEWS NETWORK: Well, what's interesting is that if you've got 100 historians in a room and you ask him for three days, you know, what were the causes of the breakup of the Soviet Union, I'm sure that probably not one of them would think to say the Beatles. They would say the usual answers of well, maybe it was the Pope and his visit to Poland in the 1980's. Some Republicans might say no, it was Ronald Reagan and the buildup of the U.S. military bankrupting the Soviet Union. And this idea of the Beatles, it's just fascinating, and I watched a documentary the other day, and I thought well maybe there's really something to this. KING: In other words, that they played a part...
SHENKMAN: As a contributing factor...

KING: Yes. Sir Paul, how...
KING: ... does that overwhelm you a little?

MCCARTNEY: Yes. You know, it's - it did really. Before we put the film together, I thought well, you know, OK, we maybe had some sort of influence as a sort of liberal thinking Western group. But, the more I listened to what people like Artemy was saying, it became a very fascinating story. They were saying that they used to take x- rays - x-ray plates of these to print Beatles records. And one of the guys on the x-rays, you know, so they kind of bootlegged our records.

But one of the guys in the program says that unlike all the propaganda, all the official propaganda from the West even, the Beatles just walked in. And I thought that was a very telling statement, you know, that we stood for sort of young people thinking freely, behaving freely. I'm enjoying the freedom that obviously we've grown up in, in the postwar period.

KING: Yes.

MCCARTNEY: And I think that communicated to a lot of these kids and they just thought you know what, and I think that made them realize that they had rights and had a voice. So I think it was a contributing thing and it's fabulous for me...

KING: Sure.
MCCARTNEY: I'm just some kid...
MCCARTNEY: ... trying to make a living.

KING: Paul, I'll see you in a couple of weeks in Los Angeles at your landmine event. I'll be happy to be there. We look forward to saying hello again.

MCCARTNEY: Great Larry. See you folks. See you David. See you Arte (ph) and everyone on the program. Thanks Larry.

KING: Thanks guys.

KING: The special airs on Tuesday, September 18 and we'll come back for a couple of moments with Richard Shenkman, Artemy Troitsky and Sir David Frost right after this.
KING: We're back. Sir David, are you surprised at the whole effect of rock music, the effect it had in the Soviet Union?

FROST: Yes, I - it took me rather by surprise; I must say the degree to which one experienced it. And the things about like with the x-rays that Paul was talking about and then and there was a period when electric guitars were banned as they were part of the sort of evil rock music and so on. And people had to make their own electric guitars, but they were obviously determined to do so. And today there's a new atmosphere and as he said, President Putin did come to the concert.

As you'll see in the film, he comes in a very sheek (ph) and black shirt, open-neck black shirt, and a very touching moment because the people around, the seats have been privately reserved for him, and the people around him all started to applaud and they were all positive interestingly. And but, he then went - because Paul was still playing - up there on the stage and so he turned around to all the other people and he went (UNINTELLIGIBLE), you know, and it was a thoughtful act by a leader to say no, go back to his show, not mine, you know, nice moment.

KING: Artemy, when you say the true story of rock in Russia, what do you mean?

TROITSKY: Well, I think they wanted to put it like it was and when I wrote this book, you know, I never even imagined that I would meet Paul McCartney someday and participate in the Larry King show. What I wrote about the impact of the Beatles on the Soviet youth was just absolutely sincere and the impact was really tremendous.

По-моему, все-же Битлз на рентгеновских снимках не делали. На этих пленках я встречал то, что было до них. Ну, Элвиса, Билла Хэйли и прочих старичков. Еще не могу понять, когда это в Союзе запрещали гитары... И поэтому у нас делали самопалы?!
Мы делали самопалки только потому что либо нормальных гитар не было в продаже, либо они были просто не по карману школьникам. Интересно, с чьей подачи Дэвид Фрост несет такую хренотень?

Я думаю, за такое интервью администрация Путина должна выделить Полу пожизненную почетную пенсию - он в нескольких фразах оказал неоценимую услугу международному имеджу Путина и заодно России, и поскольку это было сказано ПОЛОМ ЛАРРИ КИНГУ в ПРЯМОМ ЭФИРЕ, это получит огромный резонанс. Кстати, и Троицкий в очередной раз был на высоте - не сказав практически ничего, умудрился сказать все.

Alex Red: Такого, чтобы запрещали гитары, не было - их на самом деле стругали самопалом, потому что настоящих было не достать. Но вот битлы "на костях" у меня у самого были - She's A Woman и I Feel Fine.

Segodnya vecherom poprobuyu zapisat` eto delo na videokassetu, glavnoe, chtob elektrichestvo ne otklyuchili :)

BeatleJuice - главное, чтобы Изабель не помешала :-))) У нас тут red alert

Izabel ne Izabel, a ya promahnulsa... Blin,tak zhalko, domoy toko k dvum prishel!!! Pridetsa do 27 zhdat`, kogda povtoryat` budut :(

Gene***
Как там Изабель? Сегодня у нас сообщили, что даже в ДиСи red alert. Я позвонил с утра своему другу, который на Голосе работает, а у него лишь автоответчик киздит.

http://top.rbc.ru/index2.shtml

О пластинках на костях:
http://www.interfax.ru/r/B/0/2.html?id_issue=5659134

BeatleJuice, так ты еще не промахнулся - программа должна быть сегодня (18) в 9 PM, повтор ночью в 1 AM.

Alex Red - у нас тишь и гладь, солнышко светит. Обещали к вечеру пятницы начать потеху. Говорят, кто может - сидите дома. А у меня на уикэнд самая работа :-(((

Мне кажется было бы уместно сделать перевод. И сюда же запостить.

2 Alex Red На костях Битлы были точно. Есть свидетели :)