Панк рок / Punk rock

2sunset:
>да нет логики, есть спор о вкусах и цветах, который безперспективен
Кто б сомневался...
Просто интересно почему считается, что панк прошел без следа и был забыт, т.к. являлся мусором?
Мусор/не мусор - дело обсуждаемое. А, вот, "был забыт" - очень сомнительное утверждение ...

Кстати о великих.Многие обратили внимание,как в простеньком рокенролльчике Хот Дог вдруг у Пейджа начали пальчики заплетаться.Неужели вмиг "играть разучился"?

во второй части Black Dog рифф,тоже немного заплетаться:-)

А это синкопа:-)

LZ питают к собакам слабость;-)

Пока градус, снизился вот статейка из MOJO SPECIAL LIMITED EDITION – ICONS: THE GREATEST MUSIC STARS ALL TIME!
JOHN LYDON (SEX PISTOLS)
LETHAL WEAPON
HE BLEW ROCK’N’ROLL AND NATION WIDE OPEN.
FORGET EVERYTHINGTHAT happened
afterwards: their tabloid status as public enemy number one; the dubious art school pronouncements of their manager Malcolm McLaren; the ignominious break-up after the final ill-fated Winterland show in January 1978; the wasted, wasteful end of Sid Vicious. Everything you really need to know about the Sex Pistols is there in John Lydon's opening salvo in the first 10 seconds of their debut single, Anarchy In The UK.
Vibrating with an unhinged anger, a feral intelligence and an unignorable urgency, it shows just how Lydon burnt himself, as Johnny Rotten, onto the mental retina of a generation, and a generation afterthat, and indeed, afterthat... In fact, how Rotten affected pretty much every subsequent band who also cherished a dream of stirring things up, of skewing the status quo, of making people look at the world in a way that they never have before.
As Kurt Cobain said in 1992: "All the hype the Sex Pistols had was totally deserved. Johnny Rotten was the one I identified with - he was the sensitive one."
That cry of "Right... Now" encapsulates the rest of the Pistols' existence: theway in which they jolted a nation from their fish fingers and Angel Delight with their unprecedented swearing and equally unprecedented attitude on ITV's Today show in December 1976 (thus ruining the career of the presenter Bill Grundy); the way in which they hijacked the oppressive patriotism oftheSilverJubilee with God Save The Queen; the way in which Lydon uttered the band's own desperately evocative epitaph attheirfinal show-"Ever eetthefeelinavou've been cheated?'It also shone a searchlight on the young frontman's unique vocal and lyrical talents, jailbreaking into the public arena after an adolescence of frustration and rebellion. That voice, that padded cell trill was to become every bit as recognisable as the spiked red hair, the safety-pinned rags, the straight-jacketed. Hunchback Of Notre Dame posture. In that moment, Lydon not only announced his own presence, he also announced another kind of present, signposting a new way forward in the dark days of the late '70s.
For "Right... Now" in England was not so much a jumping-off point for the future as a dull dead end. It's no wonder that in a musical climate overshadowed by prog rock and The Bay City Rollers, the time was right fora new,sharper-toothed predatortodo its bit for musical evolution, a rock'n'roll meteor to kill off the old order. And one of Lydon's early statements of intent was to wear a customised T-shirt that read, "I Hate Pink Floyd".
His hatred wasn't just forthe straight establishment, his parents' generation and beyond, but also for his own apathetic contemporaries. Perhaps it's no surprise he was the only member of the Sex Pistols to turn up at the band's first official rehearsal in a dangerous pub in Bermondsey- Paul Cook, Stevejones and Glen Matlock, accordingto Malcolm McLaren in Jon Savage's superlative book England's Dreaming, "thought Rotten was a cunf'.
BORN ON 31 JAN UARY1956, the eldest
son of first-generation Irish couplejim and Eileen Lydon, John had an unsettled, peripatetic childhood. Likejohn Beverly (who'd become better known as Sid Vicious), who spent six years of his childhood in the improbably sober environs of Tunbridge Wells - Disgusting Of Tunbridge Wells, perhaps-Lydon
remembers living in an equally
1 unlikely town, the dead-end
seaside resort of Hastings, Sussex, until he was six. After moving around England, the family ended up in a tower block in Finsbury Park, North London. More significantly, the eight-year-old Lydon contracted meningitis, keeping him ill-and home from school -for a year. A contributing factor to his sense of dislocation from the world, he had to be re-educated by his mother after he recovered, yet the disease had wrecked » his memory and damaged his eyesight, leaving him with a stare that looked more diabolical than medical in origin. As he grew older, he became increasingly dissatisfied with school, refusing to sit down, shut up and obey his teachers. Thrown out of school, he sat O-levels at Hackney Technical College where he met Sid Vicious.

окончание....
--------------
Ledbyhisrebelliousyearningsto London's King's Road, he spent increasing amounts of time at McLaren's boutique, Sex, before being asked to audition for Cook and Jones's band. Notoriously, he sang Alice Cooper's Eighteen overthe jukebox at the back of the shop, turning in a twisted, pantomimic performance that captivated McLaren - even if the rest of the band weren't so sure. Lydon might loathe McLaren, but it's easy to see why the managerwould have realised Lydon was the one. In its most mainstream form, rock'n'roll was all about the alpha males when it should have been about the freaks- and it was hard to get more freakish than Rotten. As his adopted name suggests, he hardly fitted the Rock God mould - "Rotten" was a reference to his teeth which were like dog ends.Yet he looked unforgettable, as if a tubercular poet had spent so much time shuttered away in his rat-infested garret that his DNA had started to become part rodent.
He might have said that he "certainly ain't no belle of the ball", but there is a theory that beauty is merely a freakish exaggeration of the human form - and in that case, the young Lydon certainly had his own beauty. While lesser bands would look to the butch heroes of rock'n'roll iconography, Lydon has claimed to have drawn influence from old-school comedians such as Arthur Askey, Max Wall and Ken Dodd. InJulienTemple'sfilm The Filth And The Fury (2000), he reveals that Richard III was an influence, that he was inspired by "deformed, hilarious, grotesque... bizarre characters that somehow, through all their deformities, managed to achieve something". He wore bin-bags as a way of referring to the garbage strike that fouled up Britain with piles of decaying rubbish, elevated his poverty-ripped trousers and hole-ridden jumpers to the level of art statement.
Instead of being pigeonholed as a poster boy, then, Lydon's impact was beyond sex. For McLaren, he "had the charm of a boy in pain, trying to pretend he was cool". If the old cliche was that girls want to sleep with rock stars while men want to be them, the reverse could have been equally true of Rotten. He was a ball of energy rather than a come-on, a flirt. a tease. He promised nothing and delivered with nihilistic style. "What made the Sex Pistols different was Johnny Rotten, because he was a total anti-star," said Sid Vicious. "He didn't, like, wiggle his bum or shake his hips, he did robot dances and just fucked around and took the piss out of everybody in a real nasty, snidy way."
AWALKING VISUAL sloganforthe Sex Pistols, he was also the philosophical rallying point. After the infamous Bill Grundy incident, the group became a cause celebre and the moral majority, up in arms, tried to stop the band playing. "I think most of these groups would be vastly improved by sudden death," said one local councillor. 'The worst currently are the Sex Pistols and they are the antithesis of humankind. The whole world would be improved by their complete and utter non-existence." Yet while it was Jones who did all the outrageous swearing on ITV, It’s hard to imagine that the watchdogs would have been so frightened if it hadn't been for the predatory awareness of Lydon. The most intimidating moment during the Grundy debacle isn'tjones's comical "You fucking rotter", if s Rotten's gimlet stare and quiet contempt as he sneers, "Next question." As Stevejones has said, "John was from a different world to me and Cookie. He's more of an intellectualjohn", and it was this wily, laser-sighted intelligence at the heart of the band that made them so frightening. Not just yobs and louts, but a genuine steely threat.
On the Today show, you can see his boredom and contemptforthis charade. "All the hype about the Sex Pistols was totally deserved. Johnny Rotten was the one I identified with — he was the sensitive one," claimed Kurt Cobain.
"You don't write God Save The Queen because you hate the English Race," Lydon said. "You write a song like that because you love them and you're fed up with them being mistreated."
As the Pistols spiralled out of control, Lydon was still able to keep this clear¬sighted appraisal of the situation. Even as the band imploded at their last ever gig in San Francisco, Lydon, battered, empty and frustrated is able to articulate the situation in a way that has resonated over the decades: "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?' - he was referring to the show, to the Pistols, to the way in which the underground had been gutted by the mainstream. But it serves asa much wider cry of anger and resentment too.
The Pistols would have been enough to secure Lydon a place in posterity, yet he put his money where his sneer was and refused to rest on his laurels, quickly forming Public Image Limited. While the Pistols were at the extreme of rock'n'roll, PiL attempted something different, a dramatic deconstruction. As Lydon has said, 'The Pistols was all well and fine, but we came from a tradition. Even though we didn't sound like any other rock band, there was an effort made to sound like a rock band. The instrumentation and the format just leads that way. And I'd get really stifled with that. I've always been a problem to any institution that's too rigorous in its applications."
While PiL's experimental spirit proved Lydon was more than a media caricature, recentyears have seen him make choices that would have incinerated the reputations of lesser heroes like cellophane on a bonfire. He allowed the Sex Pistols to reform for their money-spinning Filthy Lucre Tour in 1996. Then earlier this year he appeared on ludicrous jungle gameshow I'm A Celebrity -Get Me Out Of Here! And yet, this is a man who's never had a lot of time for conventional rules of decency and taste—at this stage of his life, if s ratheradmirable that he should refuse to treat his own past with the prissy, hall-of-fame reverence the rock establishment might demand.
Kids watching I'm A Celebrity... may have been puzzled by this scraggy-haired, intense man, but he managed to carry his own code of individualism within him. And if there is any doubt, all you have to do is stick on Anarchy In The UK to hear that cry of "Right... Now" zipping down the telegraph lines to electrify the present. Some things, despite his best efforts, never change.
© Victoria Segal

2john lee hooker:
>Пока градус, снизился вот статейка из MOJO SPECIAL
>LIMITED EDITION – ICONS: THE GREATEST MUSIC STARS
>ALL TIME!

По большой птице за статью, JLH!

В Питере появились афиши, приглашающие 02.09 в Мюзик-холл на Патти Смит.

2SIMON: спасибо за переадресацию – согласен с тобой, что не стОит)))

Позволю себе обобщить некоторые характерные комменты. Итак (цитирую):

1. Dvas Nickolas
Несмотря на то, что в диско есть интересные вещи и сильные исполнители, я солидарен с papan'ом, и вижу в приходе диско и панка начало конца...

2. Expert
Пытаться как-то принизить его <punk’a> Достижения (!!!) это заявлять о собственной ограниченности.

3. papan
Ненавистники панк-рока по-моему в плену стереотипов.

С панком дружили ведь (до него и после) очень многие выдающиеся музыканты,в том числе и из прога (Кримзон в 80-х были под влиянием новой волны и мнимализма). Роллинги…
Почему панк-рок не получил своего массового развития во второй половине 60-х,когда все основы его уже были заложены и гаражниками,и классиками…

1. в чём же ты увидел начало того конца? Ты что, станешь отрицать, что Донна Саммер или Дж. Мородер послабее тех же КЛЭШ? Они что, пришли спецом чтобы загубить, скажем, тех же ДП или ЛЗ?
2. Тогда я смело заявляю о своей ограниченности! Принижаю и опровергаю Достижения панка! И буду это делать впредь!
3. Да, я в плену стереотипов – типа Jethro Tull, Procol Harum etc.
So what?

2:papan
...c панком дружили ведь (до него и после) очень многие выдающиеся музыканты,в том числе и из прога (Кримзон в 80-х были под влиянием новой волны и мнимализма). Роллинги…

А ты что, минимализм приравниваешь к панку?
Кстати, а где ты увидел у КК влияние панка?

Не хочу наступать тебе на мозоль, но РС (имхо) подыграли на своём затянувшемся веку всем стилям, каким только можно было. Или ты не согласен?

Да уж!.. Лучше уж диско с евро-дэнсом и с черте-те чем угодно, чем этот несчастный панк!..

Моя старшая (16 лет) сейчас постоянно слушает кого-то из наших... (я вынужден это слушать тоже изо дня в день)...Там в припеве поют что-то типа: "Мы с тобой всегда будем вместе, как Сид и Нэнси, как Сид и Нэнси...Мы никогда не доживем до пенсии...Как Сид и Нэнси, как Сид и Нэнси..." Вот так современной молодежи вспоминают про панк и его "героев"!..

2JohnLenin:

Это группа "Люмен" Сочувствую, что приходится это слушать.))

2ARoad:

>2:papan
>...c панком дружили ведь (до него и после) очень
>многие выдающиеся музыканты,в том числе и из прога
>(Кримзон в 80-х были под влиянием новой волны
>и мнимализма). Роллинги…
>А ты что, минимализм приравниваешь к панку?
>Кстати, а где ты увидел у КК влияние панка?
>Не хочу наступать тебе на мозоль, но РС (имхо)
>подыграли на своём затянувшемся веку всем стилям,
>каким только можно было. Или ты не согласен?

Минимализм я к панку не приравниваю.Потому что минимализм-не стиль рок-музыки.Но минимализм-музыкальный язык панка (часто). Насчёт Кинг Кримзон. Послушай например альбом Discipline,разве не слышно влияния Дэвида Бирна? Нью -вэйв тоже кстати прямой наследник панка.
Насчёт Роллингов.Вот полный перечень влияний.Можешь сам определить,чего не хватает:-).
http://www.timeisonourside.com/salt2.html

ARoad***
"Да, я в плену стереотипов – типа Jethro Tull, Procol Harum etc.
So what? "

Я тоже люблю эти группы.Мне неинтересны панки.Ну и что из этого? :-).У тебя есть какие-то аргументы против панка кроме стереотипного "не умели играть"? Умели ли играть Эдриан Белью или Энди Саммерс,слабее ли они Донны Саммерс:-))?

В том то и дело что боле-менее толкового аргумента против панка в этой теме пока что ещё не прозвучало. Иметь что-либо против него вообще бессмысленно. Такие вещи нужно воспринимать в том виде какие они есть.

The Rise and Fall of Popular Music
by Donald Clarke

During the 1970s it was already obvious that the original thrill that was rock’n’roll had become a middle-class marketplace, as many of the heroes of the 1960s become tax exiles and Elvis Presley killed himself with pills. A few teenagers in flared trousers were still furtively getting stoned, but the counterculture was dead. The answer to the problem of the death of rock’n’roll, since the younger generations knew nothing else, was more of it. Rock split into the rock generation’s answer to Mantovani on the one hand and punk rock on the other.

Как это было 30 лет назад публика в топике разделилась на любителей Мантовани (всего "аккуратного" и "красивого") и панка - грязного, вонючего антипода :))))).

2ARoad
Мы все ограничены в этом смысле - не можем принимать музыку во всем ее разнообразии и получать равное удовольствие от прослушивания любого стиля.
Мной же имелось в виду больше контекст рокнролла. Об этом стиле не получишь полное представление слушая только Элвиса. Рокнролл мутирует, предоставляя с каждым витком своего развития все большую палитру средств самовыражения. Каким образом можно выразить в музыке ярость, гнев и т.п. Панк прекрасно справился с этой задачей. Эмоциональная насыщенность музыки не может не быть очевидной, находя отклик у слушателя, способного или неспособного принять подобную эмоциональность.

> Рокнролл мутирует, предоставляя с каждым витком своего развития все большую палитру средств самовыражения...
> Панк прекрасно справился с этой задачей.

Как в том старом анекдоте - "Так мы до мышей дотрахаемся!" :-)))

Насколько я знаю, панком занимаются те, кто не умеют толком играть на инструментах!!!

2Бугор:
>Насколько я знаю, панком занимаются те, кто не
>умеют толком играть на инструментах!!!
Особенно Steve Stevens, который и у Билли Айдола отметился и у Джексона на Bad засветился...
Стереотипы:-)